The Montrose Gold Team Blog

What Kind of Soil Does Your Home's Foundation Sit On?

What Kind of Soil Does Your Home's Foundation Sit On?

Diane on Flat Top Above Montrose Colorado

You might be thinking...

"Who cares?".  

Think again!

The soil and foundation combination are the most important parts of your home.  They hold up your entire home and keep it square and hopefully level as well.  But square and intact is the most important. 

You really don't want your foundation to move at all, but if that is not feasible or cost effective you can at least design it to move in unison.

 

 

So how do you know what kind of soil you have or what type of foundation or what shape it is in?

Investigation, research and a professional opinion.  Here the "professional opinion" should not be your Realtor's.

You need a Geotechnical Engineer or a Geologist and then a structural engineer for the foundation.

What can YOU look for before hiring an engineer?

  • Foundation cracks
  • Sunken areas around foundation where water settles.
  • No gutters or gutters with spouts dumping right along the foundation.
  • Signs or smells of mold or mildew.
  • Drywall cracks
  • Uneven or sloping floors
  • Doors that don't close or line up properly
  • Windows that don't open and shut properly
  • Things that look out of Square with one another (e.g. Door Trim Above door looks crooked)
  • On raw ground - look for cracks, wet areas, white areas (especially in Montrose Colorado), slide areas, rock fall hazards (are you under a cliff or steep slope with big rocks on it. - BTW I have seen boulders bigger than cars halfway in houses in Telluride CO. - they fell/rolled down the hill and crashed into the unsuspecting home), etc.
  • Ask your Realtor if he/she sees anything funny looking, but don't rely on their opinion, just use it for clues to potential further investigation by the professional.

What does all this really mean if I see or smell problems?

Typically it means there has been movement of some type.  How recent and the cause are what is most important to determine.  Is it still moving?  Has the problem been fixed to stop or minimize further damage or movement?   Is the foundation structurally damaged where the crack is causing further strain and stress on adjacent components?   

These apply to new or existing homes.

These soil and foundation questions are all very important to ask, whether you own your home now or you are just thinking about buying it. 

Planning to Build a New Home or Addition?

Step 1 - Get a Soils Assessment Study

It is critically important to protect your investment when building a new home to have a soils study done, unless it is just so obvious, like solid rock, that you are certain you don't need it.  Even then I would say it was worthwhile (good insurance), because it is Step One.

Step 2 - Give the Soils Data to the Structural Engineer

Give the Soils Data to your foundation engineer so they can determine the bearing capacity of the soil (how much weight can it hold before it will give).   

If it is lower, they may have you over-excavate and backfill with good compacted material, or use piles, pad and pier, post tension slab, waffle slab, etc.

If it is high, like solid rock - they may be able to save on foundation design and costs. (e.g. When I did communication towers for a living... we anchored some directly into solid granite or other rocks atop mountains by drilling holes and using epoxy to secure the anchor bolts directly to the rock. - no foundation necessary.)

Step 3 - Make sure your Contractor Builds What was Designed!

The best design in the world is worthless if it isn't used during the construction.  Not all but some contractors I have witnessed show blatant disregard for the "directions" - they just do it their way.  Maybe their way has worked on the last 100 houses, but if your house is set on special soil conditions, it may have some special directions that need followed to protect your home.   

Buying an Existing Home or Already Living There?

It is also important to know these things for an existing home.  I don't recommend rushing out and spending thousands on soils studies and boring samples if you are already living there or just shopping for a new home.  However, become as knowledgeable as you can.  You are or will be the "Manager" of the home responsible for it's care and maintenance, so you need to understand some of its complexities.  You should also try to get at least somewhat educated by your home inspector and/or inspection report, as to how things work, what maintenance needs done regularly.  

So before you spend money especially if you are already there I would recommend the following:

  • Look for signs listed above.
  • Ask your neighbors, friends that have lived in the area a long time and maybe heard stories of people having trouble with their homes.  Where did they live? etc.
  • Check with your government authorities.  City, County, State and Federal.  They have tons of data.  It covers a good baseline and definition for the general area, but don't rely on just this.  "Hidden Dangers" can lurk below.  For example if there was an old drainage - natural or man-made that has been improperly filled in without a drainage system, that fill area will continue to carry the same water it did before it was filled.  This could cause problems either by erosion, compression or swelling. 
  • Google it for that matter.    Google:  Soil Types Areas and Maps in Montrose Colorado 

Then unless your comfortable that you have no problem, Hire the Professional.

Are you thinking?  "Oh come on, how could little water hurt my foundation?  Think again.  

Think of a hydrolic jack.  You cannot compress water.  So in clay soils that are more plate like, the water is attracted to and gets im-between the plates and causes them to swell or expand, then when it drys out they shrink again.  Natural Nano-technology that we don't want.

Still don't want to get the professional!  Do more of your own research till you convince yourself that you are willing to risk hundreds of thousands of your dollars on YOUR judgment.

Resources for Colorado and the Montrose, Telluride, Ouray, Olathe, Delta Areas:

http://soils.usda.gov/survey/online_surveys/colorado/

http://soildatamart.nrcs.usda.gov/Manuscripts/CO675/0/WSS-San%20Miguel.pdf

http://soildatamart.nrcs.usda.gov/Manuscripts/CO676/0/uncompahgre.pdf

 

Realtors - Listing or Selling a Home

What if it where your home?

  • For most homeowners a home is the biggest investment they will ever make, your fiduciary duty is to help them get the best deal on their investment, this includes avoiding uneccessary risks.
  • The foundation is the most critical part of this investment. 
  • The dirt or soil that foundation sits on is critical to the foundation.

So whether you want to be a geologist, love dirt or rocks or you hate them.  You need to know enough to advise your clients to seek out expert help, especially if you see or know of a problem that might exist.

If you know you are listing a home in a "bad soils" area or that the Sellers has had problems,  then suggest to the homeowner that if they don't have engineering information and soils reports, that they may want to essentially "pre-inspect" and supply this to the buyer.  If there is damage, it similarly may be worth the investment of having a professional inspect and recommend repairs even if they haven't been completed.

Obviously many of the same potential risks could be here as they are with a seller paying for inspections, appraisals, etc.  Some fear the "professional" will be swayed by the person paying them.  This logic makes sense to me, but I haven't witnessed its abuses first hand. 

I think most professionals are professional!  But throw a couple lawsuit happy lawyers in the mix and that perception could change in a hurry.  So if you provide these seller paid inspections or reports make sure there is a disclaimer that the buyer should investigate themselves and they are being provided as a courtesy.

Similarly for buyers, if you suspect something suspicious or know the area is at high risk of water table problems or foundation problems, mold problems.  You need to make your buyer aware and at least let them decide if they want to spend the money to further investigate.  That is our job.

 

Who are the Professionals?

Realtors - of course but here we need to be professional and tell people they should hire more professionals.

Structural Engineers - They make sure it stands up. They are very smart people. They can do all that complex math and physics calculations to determine live and dead loads of the structure and how they will be distributed to the soil and if they know rather than guess the soils bearing capacity, then they can design the "proper" foundation.  They can also help you figure out how to best fix your home to make sure the money you are spending doesn't go to waste and have to be repeated.  They need to factor in building weight, snow load, wind load, occupancy load, etc.

Soil's Engineers - Geologists - Geotechnical Engineers - These guys are very smart too, but since they love rocks and people say "dumb as rocks" you would think it wouldn't be that hard.  But as it relates to your house they have to understand both physical and chemical properties of the soils and the interaction with the environment (typically water is the key problem, variable or component of change.)

Civil Engineers - Design infrastructure - to some extent foundations, but typically storm drains, surface drainage, dams, roads, utilities, site layout, etc.

Architects - They make it look good and draw pretty pictures - understand quite a bit about Structural but largely are more about functional, practical and efficient space.  Aesthetics and flow.  And they like to party!

Interior Designers - Can sometimes do the work of an Architect and draw plans, depending on their background, typically though they are used for "interior design" how should the kitchen cabinets be laid out, what surface will look right and yet maintain its function.   What floor coverings?  What Finishes?  Color Selection and Coordination. 

Lawyers - Keep everyone honest under the threat that if they decieve or cheat or harm, they will be sued.  Seriously though, in the real estate transactions they typically try to ensure the client is protected from a legal perspective and that all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed.

Accountants/Book-keepers - Tell us if we can afford to hire the other professionals, and track all the home interest deductions, help us figure out tax credits or special rules.

 

Today we had a Professional Visit our Staff meeting - guess what she talked about!

This morning at our weekly staff meeting we were visited by a local geologist from a local full service environmental and engineering firm (Buckhorn Geotech in Montrose Colorado). 

http://www.buckhorngeo.com

She was discussing our situation and our varied soils in the area.  As a very general rule there are different types in different areas.   In reality, each home site where the home will sit should have a soils test to be sure there is no anomoly.  (e.g. here there used to be old drainages, they were filled in and built over... this isn't a good thing cause the water still goes through there).

I usually tell clients everything to the East of the River is Adobe Clay Soils and everything to the West of the River (the Uncompahgre River) is usually more gravel type soils and Alluvial deposits.  She agreed that as a general rule of thumb this was accurate, because the river has moved east and left these alluvial gravel deposits on top of the shale where spring creek mesa and behind sunset mesa lie.

But what I learned new today is that even where there are the gravel areas, there is shale below this.  Shale turns to adobe clay soils when exposed to the elements.  It also once wet swells and "holds" water or keeps it from soaking in and draining - rather the water moves horizontally along the top of the Shale layer till it can find a crack to escape out of or it just saturates the soil above it.   If this shale is causing a high water table then a septic system must be engineered to avoid ground water contamination.

The shale was under an ocean at one point she explained and the sandstone layers were basically beaches at one point.

And what I was raised to call the Hog Back to the West of the City of Montrose, is not a hog back at all, but truly a mesa.  So it makes more sense to me now that they renamed the "hog back" to "Sunset Mesa" and that it is.

Our desert Mountain Valley is in the center of two uplifting plates.  Most of the ground to the West of the river has in fact had the shale eroded away and or had river deposits placed on top as the valley was eroded and the river was pushed to the east as the plate on the Uncompahgre Plateau rose.

Adobe Badlands with Black Canyon Uplift

I hope I got all that right.  My geologist buddys would probably rip it apart.

As it relates to Real Estate in the Montrose Colorado area or anywhere for that matter is that if you are buying an existing home or building a new one, it is important to know what kind of soil is under your foundation.  Are there any special hazards or risks associated with that soil.

Many of the Developed soils in the Colorado area present expansive problems.  What this really means is that when the soils gets wet it swells.   Then when it drys back out it shrinks.  It is this movement that affects or can damage a home if not properly managed or designed.

Our guest also explained that some of our soils can also be compressive or not hold up under load and sink or slide.  The cause of this is essentially, that the clays are electrically attracted to water, so the water can leach the clays from the soils leaving voids in some areas.  This is essentially a "sink hole".  As water flows through the soil it takes the clay with it and then leaves a void.   These voids grow over time and can present real dangerous holes under the surface that can collapse when loaded.

You are probably all saying Too Much Information...  Needless to say, I took most of what she told us and regurgitated it with what I already knew and wrote this blog.  

 

May the foundation of your house and your life be SOLID and ON SOLID FOOTING!

Have a great day!    Chris

 

Chris Ormsbee Profile PicChris Ormsbee - Colorado Licensed Real Estate Broker/Realtor

Give me a Call - (970) 209-0252

Century 21 Action Realty - (970) 249-7777 - 1245 E Main St. Montrose, CO 81401

Check out the websites if you like:

www.SoldCORE.com   - Western Colorado Real Estate, Community, and Demographic Information and Links

www.MontroseGoldTeamBlog.com   - Information and Opinions about Real Estate, The Job of selling it, and the process of buying or selling a home or commerical property.  Especially in Montrose Colorado.

www.C21ActionRealty.com/cormsbee - Search Western Colorado & Montrose Homes & Properties Here!

www.C21ActionRealty.com - The Century 21 Action Realty Website (search properties or find other agents in my office.)

www.YourCOREAdvisor - Blog with other information about buying and selling Real Estate. 

3 commentsChris Ormsbee • November 25 2009 04:52AM

Free Foreclosure List for Homes in Montrose Colorado

How to find a Free list of Foreclosure Homes in and around Montrose Colorado

There are hundreds of web sites out there that try to "sell" you a list of foreclosure homes, bank owned properties, REOs and pre-foreclosure home leads. 

Some of these sites actually do a good job of condensing data and making the process simple, yet many if not most, regurgitate data recorded at the court house without cross referencing or checkin the status in other locations, like the local MLS.

This is where a Realtor can come in very handy, especially a Realtor that knows the Foreclosure process and how to find and negotiate the purchase of homes that are in the process of being Foreclosed and those that have been through the Foreclosure process and are now Bank Owned or REOs.

Most people looking for "foreclosure homes" are investors or people that want to be investors, but more and more there are people just looking for a "screaming deal" on a home for themselves.

The foreclosed homes range in value and our service area is very diverse.   The cheapest foreclosed home listing the Montrose Gold Team currently has listed is $155,000 and the highest is probably going to be priced about $1,000,000 to $1,250,000. 

The best generic advice for a Free Foreclosure List 

Access the county web site (where you are searching) by googling the "county name" and selecting the "real" government provided county website.  Then look for a page or tab for the trustee or possibly assessor or if they have a search function to search the site type in "Foreclosure List".  In general Government Websites are wonderful for providing tons of "FREE" information (we actually all paid for it, so use it)... You should always migrate to them in research.

In Montrose Colorado you can access the Free Foreclosure List at:

http://www.montrosecounty.net/treasurer/foreclosures/ 

Then if you have Microsoft Word you can click on the "Active" link and it will open on the same page in Word.  Otherwise you can right click and select Save Target As and save the ".doc" file and then you can open it with SWriter - OpenOffice.org's free word processing application.

Other sites you may need are the Assessor's site at:

http://eagleweb.montrosecounty.net/eagleassessor/web/splash.jsp

and the Online Recorded Records Searching Site at:

http://oncore.montrosecounty.net/Search.aspx

Unfortunately Montrose County Charges for access to the viewable "online records" but you can view the "header" information for free and search to see if documents exist in a party's name...

 

All of the Homes and Properties below have been through Foreclosure.  They are now considered bank owned or in one case FDIC owned because this property brought the small bank down!

This home below is in the Hastings Mesa Area off of Elam Ranch Rd is a bank owned property and went through a foreclosure.

It is about 40 minutes from Montrose and about 20 minutes to Telluride... It is all solar and wind powered for electricity and is heated with propane. 

Access is limited during the winter and requires snow mobile or snow shoe access.  However if plowed daily, it could probably be kept open year round.   This home was purchased for $1.8 Million and had $1.5 Million in Debt on it.  It had been on the market for 6 months at a price of $1.5 Million and didn't sell.  So it will probably be priced around $1.25 Million.

Foreclosure Home near Telluride Co

We have small neighborhood homes like this:

Local Montrose Foreclosure Home - REO

We have a local Golf Course Community where the whole community with the club house and undeveloped lots for sale was Foreclosed!  We have many homes in this community that have been foreclosed or are in the processes of being foreclosed. 

This home below is on Painted Wall in the Bridges Golf Course Community and is listed at $375,000.  It is under contract and set to close at the end of September.

A Foreclosed Home in the Bridges Golf Course Community

Below is a picture of the club house at The Bridges Golf Course Community.

It  is owned by the FDIC.  They are accepting any bids over $7,000,000 starting tonight 9/18/09...  Original defaulted debt was approximately $24 Million.

The Bridges of the Black Canyon Golf Course

There are all types of Foreclosed Properties and Homes...

The Foreclosure process is the same for commercial and residential property but slightly different (longer for farm ground). 

After the bank gets tired of not being paid, usually about 3 months of non-payment, then they will file a Notice of Election and Demand (NED) which starts the foreclosure process and requires the Public Trustee for the County to set the Sale Date 110-125 days after the filing of the NED.

The Owner must file a notice to Cure at least 10 days prior to the Sale Date if they intend to Cure, so if you have an owner whos home has started into the foreclosure process, it is a good idea to get this Notice from the County and file it immediately to leave their options open.

The Foreclosure List is just the beginning, then the research and the phone calls and visits begin.  A Realtor can be very helpful here unless you have done several of these and know all the ropes. 

If a home is "pre-foreclosure" you may be able to wrap the note, or save the home owner if they aren't too far underwater.  You basically have a "motivated seller".

If a home is "in foreclosure" then you will likely want to try to get the Bank to do a Short Sale.  If the homeowner has a lot of equity again you might be able to wrap their note, cure it and assume ownership of the home.

If a home is "going to foreclosure sale" - you can show up at the courthouse at 9:00 on Wednesday (in Montrose Colorado), bring your cash and make a bid and purchase the home there.

If a home has "gone through foreclosure"  - it is now considered "bank owned" and is often referred to as an REO which stands for Real Estate Owned (by the bank).

Hope this helps!

If you have any specific questions about how to find foreclosed homes that are bank owned, homes in the foreclosure process or homes that are about to go into foreclosure, please call or leave a comment and I will try to answer your questions.

So hopefully you know someone with about 8-10 Million and you will have them call me to buy this foreclosed Golf Course Community full of homes that have been foreclosed or are in the foreclosure process as we speak.   Realize there are many viable "real" families living here as well, paying dues and golfing.

Chris Ormsbee is a Realtor and is a licensed Real Estate Agent in the State of Colorado.  He is part of the Montrose Gold Team and works for Century 21 Action Realty in Montrose Colorado.  Century 21 Action Realty is located at 1245 E Main St. Montrose, CO 81401 and our phone number is (970) 209-0252.   Chris Ormsbee is NOT a Lawyer, Accountant, CPA, Surveyor, Structural Engineer, Financial Advisor, Judge, Jury or a Normal Guy, but he does occassionally sleep at a Holiday Inn Express.

Besides Commenting here, you can Contact Chris Ormsbee (especially if you want to buy or sell real estate):

Chris' Cell Phone is (970) 209-0252

Chris can be friend-ed on Facebook.  His user name is Chris Ormsbee

Chris also has other blogs pertaining to Real Estate:

http://www.YourCOREAdvisor.com/blog

http://www.MontroseGoldTeamBlog.com

Chris is also "diverse" and has

http://www.TheDivorceWorkshop.com - a divorce counseling and advice site.

http://IdeasThoughtsWhatevers.blogspot.com/  - a discussion about Internet Marketing Ideas and trial "sales pitches", wild wacky ideas and politics abound and some content may be oriented to adults - surfers beware!

Chris Ormsbee Profile PicChris Ormsbee - Colorado Licensed Real Estate Broker/Realtor

Give me a Call - (970) 209-0252

Century 21 Action Realty - (970) 249-7777 - 1245 E Main St. Montrose, CO 81401

Check out the websites if you like:

www.SoldCORE.com   - Western Colorado Real Estate, Community, and Demographic Information and Links

www.MontroseGoldTeamBlog.com   - Information and Opinions about Real Estate, The Job of selling it, and the process of buying or selling a home or commerical property.  Especially in Montrose Colorado.

www.C21ActionRealty.com/cormsbee - Search Western Colorado & Montrose Homes & Properties Here!

www.C21ActionRealty.com - The Century 21 Action Realty Website (search properties or find other agents in my office.)

www.YourCOREAdvisor - Blog with other information about buying and selling Real Estate. 

6 commentsChris Ormsbee • September 18 2009 10:40PM